Hydrogen, Fuel Catalyst and Alternative Fuel Forum

QUICK QUESTION OR COMMENT => Quick Question or Comment ! => Topic started by: PDJ on July 27, 2009, 01:13:44 AM



Title: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: PDJ on July 27, 2009, 01:13:44 AM
Have something to say or ask?

You can either search out the relevant section of the forum for detailed questions or comments, or just throw a quickie here  :)


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: stacka on August 05, 2009, 06:44:30 AM
Quick Question,  Does anyone know if it is normal in HHo production to have a vapour appear from the bubbler or outlet pipe from the producer ?


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: JohnBaxter on August 05, 2009, 01:55:22 PM
I think this will be from temperature of the water. Have you checked the working temperature?

Closer plates will allow you to use less electrolyte and this should give you less amps. This should keep the temp lower. A PWM will further reduce amps and temp in production.

I was reading somewhere that increased temp is OK just for the gas. One guy actually had the bubbler outlet pipe go past the exhaust manifold to heat the gas up before going into the air inlet.


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: PDJ on August 05, 2009, 07:49:30 PM
I think the temp statement may only partially be possible. No matter what temp in the cell, it should cool when going through the bubbler..

Might be an idea to check on water level in the bubbler. See if it is rising. If this is so it could either be froth from cell getting into the bubbler, or if the cell is running too hot and starting to boil the steam will gather in the bubbler and when cool start to rise the water level.

If you have an agressive HHO flow into the bubbler the fast flow of HHO may be bubbling and there is vapour as a result. Try channeling the gas through several smaller tubes in different locations in the bubbler to decrease the amount of bubbles in one location.


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: stacka on August 06, 2009, 04:08:58 PM
Thanks for your comments guys,
I have since found out that some visable vapour is normal even at low temp. Was just wondering as i have cells now that are running at a high temp of 40 deg C even after running for 3 hrs.


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: JohnBaxter on August 07, 2009, 01:22:32 PM
Now that I think about it you couldn't not get condensation, after all it is a 100% humidity environment. The simple fact that there are bubbles rising to the surface and popping at the top will make sure there is a heap of moisture in the air/HHO mix.

I can not see inside my bubbler but I can see the the water level tube on the side. There has always been a little moisture above the water level. I did not worry about it because I did not see any in the tube going to the air intake.

I still think temperature has a lot to do with it. The water level tube on the side of my kettle does not have any moisture above the water level when the water is cold. As soon as the kettle boils there is water vapour there.


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: PDJ on September 09, 2009, 04:35:39 AM
There has been repeated Spam events placed in this thread, this because there is no registration required.

I am going to try and stay on top of it, but if it becomes too frequent I may need to change this thread to "Registration Required"

With the huge amount of email and web site spamming that is happening on the www, it is a shame that a few are inconveniencing the many.


Title: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: D.clash on October 08, 2009, 03:51:44 AM
maybe just delete the quick question box if it cant be fixed

I mean how much time do you really save from not posting your question here directly?


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: PDJ on October 08, 2009, 12:33:21 PM
how much time do you really save from not posting your question here directly?

Good point, but I have set this up for two reasons....
  • We now have over 13,000 (edit - now 25,000) pages viewed monthly and the majority by un-registered Guests. This is here for "if" these guests wish to ask a question without having to give their email address out to register. With the amount of Spam getting around, I too would be reluctant to give out my address if I was uncertain of the site.
  • Speaking of Spam..... The www.reduceyourfuelbill.com.au (http://www.reduceyourfuelbill.com.au) main web site had an email section that had been found by the "Spam Spiders" - The email section has now been removed and a link placed to this section of the forum.


Title: upliquerrek
Post by: Uneddyirrindy on October 23, 2009, 06:47:26 PM
This message has been completely edited by the Forum Administrator.

Thanks Uneddyirrindy..... Your inconsiderate actions have made it so I disable this board "No Registration" access. Your repeated attempts to list Porn Spam really is not appreciated. From now on people will need to register to post a question.

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(Revenge can be sweet)


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: lizard56 on May 05, 2010, 12:50:20 AM
Hello and thanks in advance for your help. I have build a dry cell and it is producing a good amount of hydrogen using KOH in the mixture and running at 13 amps.
My problem is that instead of circulating the mixture out the top of the cell, into the reservior and returning back into the bottom of the cell, it also pushes some fluid/hydrogen out of the bottom hose of the cell which flows up into the bottom of the reservoir, filling it to overflowing, leaving the cell with almost no fluid in it.
Because of this I have not been able to run it for very long. I have raised the reservior and the base of it is now 15cm above the top of the cell. This made no difference. Turn the power off and the water drains back into the cell. I have had the bubbler outlet just venting into the air to make sure there is no pressure build up.
So, any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I have been reading plenty of info on the subject but have not come across this problem anywhere.  Thanking you, Lindsay.


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: PDJ on May 05, 2010, 04:59:49 AM
My problem is that instead of circulating the mixture out the top of the cell, into the reservior and returning back into the bottom of the cell, it also pushes some fluid/hydrogen out of the bottom hose of the cell which flows up into the bottom of the reservoir, filling it to overflowing, leaving the cell with almost no fluid in it.

Interesting - I don't think it is gravity (though it helps having the reservoir higher), it is increased pressure from the act of making the HHO. When the plates start producing HHO there is a pressure build up within the Dry Cell. This will let the pressure try and escape through any possible outlet (top and botom)

I am no expert, but you might like to do two things.
  • Increase the diameter of the pipe going from the top of your cell
  • Decrease the diameter of the pipe refilling the cell at the bottom

Whatever pressure is established will find it easier to go through the larger pipe at the top.

I did a bit of Googling for acid resistant one way valves but only found expensive pressure valves.

There are HHO One way valves made for the gas but I was not able to find any for the electrolyte.

My reservoir has always been higher with a small pipe to the cell and i have never had your problem.

Try changing the pipe diameters - let us know how you go.

PS - If you have a pic of your setup it could help  :)


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: Trent on September 22, 2010, 11:29:26 PM
Hi all. I ended up making a unit similr to the Smack using his plans but I used plates instead and changing the strap design. Have done a heap of reading from this forum and I found it incrediby useful thanks.

My hats off to you guys there is so much stuff here.

Some of the suppliers web sites I have found have small forums to help their customers and help them sell more stuff. You guys simply share everything. Great. Whatever inspird you to set it up?


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: PDJ on September 27, 2010, 01:01:30 PM
Whatever inspird you to set it up?

Hi Trent - Thanks for the compliment.

When I first started my HHO journey I fell for one of those "Free HHO Plans" web sites that ended up costing me $49. The plans were ancient and very confusing so I decided to find out as much as I could about building one.

It was difficult to find the info I wanted, so when I did find it I decided to put it all here for others to share.

BTW - I really do not like the oil companies making it hard for families to be able to survive with the constant fuel price increases.

Another reason is the blatent waste of money by the people who own the oil wells.

Check out this car owned by an oil shiek ..... it is actually GOLD !

(http://www.autoguide.com/gallery/d/17861-4/14y3m6w.jpg)

And if you are interested to see where he lives, check out the series of pics below. This is actually a house and NOT a hotel.

(http://www.handycrafuniqe.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/4-Worlds-grandest-house-floor.jpg)
(http://www.handycrafuniqe.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/bathroom-before-the-house-of-the-grandest-in-the-World.jpg)
(http://www.handycrafuniqe.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/ceiling-grandest-World.jpg)
(http://www.handycrafuniqe.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/house-Worlds-grandest.jpg)
(http://www.handycrafuniqe.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Houses-grandest-room-in-the-World.jpg)
(http://www.handycrafuniqe.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/The-parking-lot-is-the-grandest-in-the-World.jpg)

Now I am not against business people enjoying the fruits of their success, but when nearly everyone in the world struggles to simply fill their tank up I think it is a little inconsiderate for the owner of this oil mansion to proudly post his home on the internet.

When I grow up I want to be an Oil Shiek

Regards
Paul


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: d40navara on March 28, 2011, 03:51:46 AM
Hi to all my name is Daniel i have been hho curiouse for some time now(2years) but have never taken the leap of faith mostly due to time and money.
My questions do any hho addicts/users live on or near the central coast NSW Australia?
Are you able to meet me somewhere to show me your setup?
 you never know i may even be able to help you as I'm reasonably handy and fairly savvy with electricals.
I would love to see an actual working example, i do believe it to work but have been dismayed as the car i would like to run a hho set up is an 07 Nissan v6 which has 2 air fuel ratio sensors and 2 oxygen sensors.

I currently have a Mercedes 300d that i have done over 160,000ks on straight vegetable oil the old gal will die of cancer before her ticker stops.


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: gasser on April 03, 2011, 10:51:35 PM
Can anyone tell me where I can buy 316L stainless in 4'' squares?  Everything i have found locally in Reno you have to buy the whole sheet ($500). Kind of expensive for playing and testing. Thanks


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: PDJ on April 03, 2011, 11:54:53 PM
do any hho addicts/users live on or near the central coast NSW Australia?
Are you able to meet me somewhere to show me your setup?

Hey Daniel - Welcome to the Forum
I hope someone answers your question but you might find that the visitors in this Forum are from all over the world.
If you have  a spare hour or ten, have a sticky beak at Youtube.
If you have not already seen it, have a look at the Video Tutorial I have in this Forum at http://reduceyourfuelbill.com.au/forum/index.php?topic=62.0
I know how you might feel, I was sceptical at first myself

Paul


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: PDJ on April 03, 2011, 11:58:38 PM
Can anyone tell me where I can buy 316L stainless in 4'' squares?

Greetings...
There are many HHO e-shops on the internet and many of these offer parts.
Try Googling them and I will do the same.

Regards
Paul


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: shane73 on April 30, 2011, 08:23:00 PM
Hello everyone. I luv this site. Got a ? has anyone used a Apexi AFC on they're truck or car, instead of an efie? I have been having trouble with my setup that i put in my 4.3 s10. The efie is not keeping up with the computer in the truck.


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: myoldyourgold on April 30, 2011, 10:10:03 PM
Quote
Hello everyone. I luv this site. Got a ? has anyone used a Apexi AFC on they're truck or car, instead of an efie? I have been having trouble with my setup that i put in my 4.3 s10. The efie is not keeping up with the computer in the truck.

Yes one will work on your S10.  I believe the Neo will.  It is much more complex to tune and hook up than an EFIE and will require some skill to get it right.  Tuners make a living using these but usually on street rods.  A new one is expensive.  Used ones if you can find one run for $250 US on up.  I would suggest you stick with an EFIE/MAP and master that first. 


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: shane73 on May 01, 2011, 01:00:38 PM
Sounds good. The efie i have on my truck is making my check engine light come on and the code is insufficient switches bank 1 and 2. I turned my efie down and it still comes on, but i was thinking maybe its that i have about 6ft of cat 6 wire for use on phone lines going from o2 sensors to the efie and back to the computer wire by the sensor. If i hook it up at the computer do u think it will keep up with the sensor or computer? I cant even use the cell i built because i cant see my fuel gage go down as im driving down the road. And on one side of the efie the mvolts dont change much at all but the other side or o2 sensor i can get them to go up to about 1.14. i have my volts set at around .588 with the cell on, that is what it is when i have the cell off.

I was thinking if i could find someone to hook up and tune the apexi afc then it would be better on gas. I dont know im new at all of this. I am just one of those people that can make what they see. If u know what i mean. I seen a dry cell on youtube and looked for some parts and put one together. Now that i found this site im learning some of the ends and outs of it all.

thank u all for the help

Shane


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: myoldyourgold on May 01, 2011, 01:22:57 PM
Shane,  unfortunately I am the wrong one to be answering any of this.  I wish one of the other guys who are familiar with EFIE's would help out here.  I am only going on what others have said and based on that I deduce, that  you have a problem with either the EFIE or how it is connected.  Are you absolutely sure it is hooked up right.  Sorry I am not any help at all in this matter. 


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: shane73 on May 01, 2011, 01:48:45 PM
Yes im sure. But the site i got it from said something about switching the wires around to lower the volts. Like the way i have it now the wire from the sensor goes in to the in side and the computer wire is hooked up to the out side, they say to switch them around to lower the volts if needed but i dont know y i would need that.


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: unoassassin on May 14, 2011, 08:47:12 AM
Shane the reason for changing the wire is there are two types of O2's , if I have this right it is a simple answer , old O2's work on a low to high or high to low scale for input and the new ones work the opposite so first you need to know what you have and I may be able to help but I need your year of vic. and type and I will try and find out if you haven't got this figured out . Gary


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: HydroSysSteve on May 15, 2011, 08:06:54 AM
Also, what brand/type of EFIE do you have?


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: unoassassin on May 15, 2011, 11:14:27 AM
I make a ZFF clone duel channel , ( two O2's ) Zero's can be used for old and new O2's just by swaping the two wires .


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: Jacob.h.h.o. on September 19, 2011, 08:40:56 PM
Hi, I am just asking a few quick questions. I am going to make a dry cell hho generator and I was wondering how thick of 316 stainless steel I should use and where I could find some. I was also wondering what the best thing for the sides would be. Plexiglas?
I am also wondering if I will need a special chip or anything to make it work better on my car. I have a 1996 Jeep Grand Cherokee. There is also limited room under the hood. Any suggestions about reservoirs?
Thanks!


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: lhazleton on September 20, 2011, 06:27:38 AM
Jacob,
  Welcome to the forum. For the plates, your best bet would be 18 ga. 316L. For endplates, NEVER use plexiglass. It'll just crack. Use 1/2" or 3/4" HDPE instead.
For the Jeep, assuming it's a 4.0L, you'll need to build a reactor capable of producing at least 2LPM @ 30 amps..
  Additionally, since it's an OBD1 model, you should be able to get away with a single narrowband EFIE for electronics. A 2 quart reservoir will work fine. As far as where to fit everything, you'll need to be creative. Look around, as there are lots of people out there with similar Jeeps running HHO.
  Above all, do lots of research before building anything and good luck!


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: Jacob.h.h.o. on September 20, 2011, 08:15:53 PM
Ok thanks!
Do you know where I could get a good one of those EFIEs? My Jeep is actually a 5.2 if that makes any difference. I have been doing a lot of research and I think I am ready to try to build a dry cell. Do people usually just order the parts online? I can't find any stainless steel anywhere.


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: lhazleton on September 21, 2011, 06:41:09 AM
Ok, for a 5.2L you need a reactor that will put out at least 2.6LPM. Your best bet would be to build two reactors since there is minimal available space.
For an EFIE, your best bet would be  http://www.fuelsaver-mpg.com (http://www.bfm.net.au/htmlredir.html)
As far as getting the necessary materials for a build, I have no idea where you live, so I can't help you there. I'm able to get everything (except KOH) locally.


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: james the leper on September 27, 2011, 11:16:45 AM
ive just fitted a 50 amp shunt inline with my generator and the battery, i am not really sure what the shunt does, but i think, and please correct me, it somehow factors down the voltage/amps. Ive put this in after looking through u-tube about amp measurements and they have a shunt fitted.

So i took a measurement using my UNI-T UT50C amp meter;

first i put the leads in COM (black) and 20A (red), i then set the dail to the highest setting 20A

The reading was 0.03A

secondly i put the lead in COM (black) and mA (red), i then set the dail to 20m

The reading was 0.063mA

two totally different readings, anyone tell me why, and what they mean?

When i bench tested it i got 2 amp reading.



Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: HHOPWR on September 27, 2011, 10:42:39 PM
First, A shunt is used to measure amp draw. The shunt will have a known miliamp drop between the check points on either end. You can tell the check points because there will be screws to hook your leads from your voltmeter to. Every shunt can be different. There should be markings on it. A 1 to 1 shunt will read 1 milivolt for every amp that is traveling through it. A .5 to 1 shunt will read .5 milliamps for every amp that travels through it. Once you know the voltage drop through your shunt you can read exact amperage with a simple volt meter. It is the most accurate way to determine exactly how many amps your reactor is drawing. Other than that your shunt will do nothing. The amp drop is negligable so it won't change the performance of your reactor. For example if you have a 1 to 1 shunt your reactor would have to draw 100 amps to drop your voltage to the reactor by only 1/10th of a volt. That would not change the output by any measurable amount unless you had a very very very effecient reactor. If you had one you would already know what a shunt does.

Larry


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: james the leper on September 28, 2011, 10:22:27 AM
i lookthe shunt and writing on its sides say 50A 75mv and FL-2/0.5 does that mean for every .5 amp read equals 2 amps in practice?


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: myoldyourgold on September 29, 2011, 08:05:15 AM
I have been waiting for someone who uses his multimeter to measure the amps through a shunt to answer this question but see no one has stepped forward.  I use a matching lab grade meters with all my shunts not my multimeter so might not have this right.

A 50A / 75mv shunt means it will measure up to 50amps and 75mv on your mv scale will equal 50 amps.  25 amps will be 37.5mv or 1.5 mv per amp.  All my shunts have 4 screws 2 larger and 2 smaller the smaller ones are where you hook up the meter and the larger 2 are for the main connections.  The shunt is in series on one leg going to the reactor.


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: james the leper on September 29, 2011, 12:07:34 PM
at last, now i know how to measure the amps. i am getting 5.8mv so i work that out to be 3.9 amps which is what i was getting when bench testing, thankyou all.


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: D.O.G. on September 29, 2011, 01:07:19 PM
A word of caution.
Most garden variety shunts are only accurate (+/- 1% or worse) at the top end of the scale.
This means at 50A it will give a reliable reading, but 3.9A is less than 10% of full scale and the accuracy may be far worse.

I'd check your readings by temporarily removing the shunt and substituting your multimeter (on a low range) in it's place. If the readings match you can have more confidence in the readings you have now.

Pete.


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: james the leper on September 29, 2011, 01:25:10 PM
if i could i would, however this is the first time i have got a reading using a multimeter, when i attempt to take a reading with my 20amp max dc, meter, it flat lines, i have yet to get an answer as to why this happens.
I would say, being an ametur, that i may be using the meter wrong, yet i have an instruction manual which is very simple to use.
However if the following post had not been displayed

I have been waiting for someone who uses his multimeter to measure the amps through a shunt to answer this question but see no one has stepped forward.  I use a matching lab grade meters with all my shunts not my multimeter so might not have this right.

A 50A / 75mv shunt means it will measure up to 50amps and 75mv on your mv scale will equal 50 amps.  25 amps will be 37.5mv or 1.5 mv per amp.  All my shunts have 4 screws 2 larger and 2 smaller the smaller ones are where you hook up the meter and the larger 2 are for the main connections.  The shunt is in series on one leg going to the reactor.

I would of never known to use volts, mV, to measure amps.

So if the use of the volts range and not amp range is the way to get a meter reading accurately, please let me know.

Many thanks Jim


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: HHOPWR on September 29, 2011, 10:48:18 PM
Your shunt is the most accurate way you can possibly measure amps. Here is the kicker. If your max amps is 50 then you should use a shunt that is rated at least for 75 amps. You should never ever use a shunt at its maximum for any more than a few minutes. As any metal increases in temperature its resistance also increases. Since the amperage is measured by known voltage drop through a known distance of a known amount of metal and metal increases its resistance with higher temperatures it is imperative to keep it cool. The flip side is that the margin for error is greater the lower the amp draw is. rest assured that using a shunt you will be far more accurate than with any other method.

Larry


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: james the leper on October 12, 2011, 11:09:53 AM
Quick question?

I wanted to fit a voltage switch to the battery, to prevent the generator producing HHO if the ignition is switched on and the engine isn't running. I was recommended a 7amp one from a place in California

 http://www.solarpanelstore.com/solar-power.small-charge-controllers.eco-energy.voltage_switch.info.1.html

unfortunately they don't ship to UK, so i found one from a UK supplier, however reading about these switches they only switch on and off at specific voltages, (11.9 and 14.4), so that would mean that the generator would still work until the voltage dropped to 11.9 volts.

So, Question does this switch operate, (turn on), only when the alternator is turning and supplying the battery or does it operate when the battery voltage reaches a certain voltage?


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: myoldyourgold on October 12, 2011, 11:55:23 AM
James, I can not see how that switch can work.  I am not an electrical engineer and only have simple knowledge of electronics.  I have tested these switches and the one I use is adjustable as to where is turns on and off.  Mine is set to 13 volts as the turn on point and I think 15 volts to shut off which it will never reach if I remember.  Batteries can charge up to 12.7 or more volts so you need the switch to turn on things at a higher voltage 13 volts or higher.  I know of no way to isolate it from the battery and only turn on when voltage is being created by the alternator.  Maybe D.O.G. can help out here but do not think it is possible at least not without adding additional electronics.   D.O.G. uses a vacuum switch.  Unfortunately they are expensive but you might be able to find a surplus one or a used one that will work cheap enough. 

I tried to use the switch to shut off the reactor at idle but a good alternator produces to much voltage at idle to work in almost all cases and you are limited by a range between on and off so there has to be quite a big difference.    Works great on my 53 International truck though with a generator.  LOL   I was told with some added electronics it could be made to work but not worth the expense. 


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: D.O.G. on October 15, 2011, 05:08:36 AM
Quick question?

I wanted to fit a voltage switch to the battery, to prevent the generator producing HHO if the ignition is switched on and the engine isn't running. I was recommended a 7amp one from a place in California

 http://www.solarpanelstore.com/solar-power.small-charge-controllers.eco-energy.voltage_switch.info.1.html

unfortunately they don't ship to UK, so i found one from a UK supplier, however reading about these switches they only switch on and off at specific voltages, (11.9 and 14.4), so that would mean that the generator would still work until the voltage dropped to 11.9 volts.

So, Question does this switch operate, (turn on), only when the alternator is turning and supplying the battery or does it operate when the battery voltage reaches a certain voltage?
This type of voltage switch is designed to protect batteries in standby or storage applications, it's not what you need.

This might be what you need, http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=KC5377&form=CAT2&SUBCATID=965#11
I haven't used this kit, but it's versatile enough that you should be able to use it to control when your reactor turns on/off by sensing many of your engine sensor voltages.

Another alternative is, http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=KC5378&form=CAT2&SUBCATID=965#11
Again, I haven't used this kit, but sensing engine RPM to switch your reactor ( or VSS, or any other frequency based signal) could be useful.

I'm using a digital vacuum switch on my system because my carburettor test car (no sensors) gives me limited options for reactor control.

The other very basic safety control is to use the engine's oil pressure switch signal. How you do this varies with the type of pressure switch/sensor your engine uses.
I'd use something like this, http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=KG9142&form=CAT2&SUBCATID=965#11 and use it to switch a larger relay.

There is no "best" solution to reactor control, because each engine management design has it's own quirks and each HHO experimenter has his own ideas. What works well for me may be useless for you, but the above kits are versatile enough that there should be something you can use.

Pete. :)


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: robonut1 on October 15, 2011, 01:20:08 PM
So I have not been looing around on this site and cannot seem to figure out what the difference between a dry and wet cell is. Can someone explain this to me?


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: lhazleton on October 15, 2011, 02:50:29 PM
A basic, quickie answer is:
A wet cell (YUK) is when the plates, spiral wires, or whatever is used for electrodes sits in an open bath of electrolyte. These are basically bombs waiting to go off and are very inefficient. >:(
A dry cell design is when a series of plates (usually 8 plates per stack  -NNNNNN+) are totally enclosed and electrolyte is fed between the plates from a remote reservoir. These are very efficient and give good results. ;D


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: D-shot on October 15, 2011, 02:51:57 PM
So I have not been looing around on this site and cannot seem to figure out what the difference between a dry and wet cell is. Can someone explain this to me?
a wet cell is a plate array submersed in water housed in a plastic container.
A dry cell is a series of plates separated with gaskets and when built correctly it can be very efficient and much safer due to power connection being on the out side of the reactor. "D"


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: lhazleton on October 15, 2011, 03:26:34 PM
Damn Darrell, ya gotta copy everything I say?  ;D
Looks like we posted at the same time, eh? Usually, only Gus does that! ;)


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: robonut1 on October 15, 2011, 04:58:56 PM
Thanks guys. HHO is something I have just found out about but I am very interested in. I am sure I will have plenty more questions.


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: myoldyourgold on October 15, 2011, 05:32:14 PM

Quote
the difference between a dry and wet cell is

Asshat was the one that started the dry cell/reactor name.  Made no sense but stuck.   It was first called a sealed series reactor but that was to technical for some.  Now you know the rest of the story.

Everyone was building wet reactors so the defination was not needed.  Darrell's defenition is right on. 


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: D-shot on October 16, 2011, 12:02:52 AM
Damn Darrell, ya gotta copy everything I say?  ;D
Looks like we posted at the same time, eh? Usually, only Gus does that! ;)

Lee great minds think alike....  Hee Hee!!!


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: hhoconnection on October 16, 2011, 08:24:10 AM
So I have not been looing around on this site and cannot seem to figure out what the difference between a dry and wet cell is. Can someone explain this to me?

Watch this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQOxWXRsLB4



Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: lhazleton on October 16, 2011, 08:59:22 AM
Very good, Mike!  ;D
I wish Paul would take all of your videos and make them a sticky right on top of the main page! :o (hint, hint)


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: HaD87 on October 25, 2011, 08:10:36 AM
Quick question: How would silicone react with electrolyte? And can i use it as a gasket for dry cell?
(http://www.collierspaintshop.co.uk/ekmps/shops/1working/images/purimachos-fire-heat-resistant-silicone-1408-p.jpg)
On this type of silicone i meant.
Thanks!


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: myoldyourgold on October 25, 2011, 08:40:01 AM
Have not tried that product but doubt it will work.  The problem is more than holding up in the electrolyte which is a problem with normal silicone.  The problem is to have equal spacing that stays equal under all conditions.  EPDM is quite cheap and works well. 


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: james the leper on November 10, 2011, 03:05:34 PM
Do you have to retard an engine if you wish to run it on HHO, ive read about flash back on the small honda engine,(ie 2 sparks on 360 rotation), however, i am sure i read somewhere on the forum the engine had to be retarded, if so cant undestand why, or am i reading to much and getting mixed up?


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: PDJ on November 10, 2011, 10:19:10 PM
If you have a pre 1996 engine with a carburettor instead of a fuel injection system you will find that introducing hydrogen into the combustion chamber will enhance combustion and make it happen faster.

The problem here is if it happens too soon it could actually decrease the power of the engine and decrease your economy. (something to do with early firing the piston before it reaches the full up and starts the down power stroke). Making the spark arrive a little later fixes this.



Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: james the leper on November 13, 2011, 02:45:12 AM
Im no mechanic, so ive just been reading about firing in the cylinder and the flame front, and got a few questions and statements which i would appreciate a second opinion. thanks jim

If you introduce the hho to the engine, (this is to run it on just HHO), is the best place to take it through the float chamber on the carburater ?

If i put it through the air inlet, surely this would make the throttle work incorrectly?

So, i had an lpg car which used a diaghram throttle system, if i bypassed/ removed the carburater would the lpg throttle work on its own ?


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: D.O.G. on November 16, 2011, 11:00:47 AM
Im no mechanic, so ive just been reading about firing in the cylinder and the flame front, and got a few questions and statements which i would appreciate a second opinion. thanks jim

If you introduce the hho to the engine, (this is to run it on just HHO), is the best place to take it through the float chamber on the carburater ?

If i put it through the air inlet, surely this would make the throttle work incorrectly?

So, i had an lpg car which used a diaghram throttle system, if i bypassed/ removed the carburater would the lpg throttle work on its own ?
Item 1: No. ;D The float chamber and jets of a carby are designed to give you a 14.7:1 mix of air and fuel, using a liquid fuel. I haven't actually tried running on straight HHO, but I'm guessing you don't want all that extra air in the combustion chamber, it's already at it's perfect mix of 2:1.

Item 2: No.  ;D The carby slide or butterfly (depending on the carby construction) works as a valve to control air/fuel feed. If it's removed as some systems I've read about, you still need some sort of metering device for the HHO.

Item 3: No.  ;D At least not on the LPG system I had in a previous vehicle. From memory it used the vacuum after the butterfly to determine how far to open the mixing valve (diaphram).

Pete.


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: myoldyourgold on November 16, 2011, 12:38:14 PM
For running a small engine on just HHO I suggest you go to school on this guy.

http://reduceyourfuelbill.com.au/forum/index.php?topic=449.0 (http://reduceyourfuelbill.com.au/forum/index.php?topic=449.0)


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: james the leper on December 13, 2011, 11:34:45 AM
Just fitted a new system, a dry cell, works fine, but just not getting the results i am expecting, i have made the mix to pull 18 amps, which the manufacturer recommends.

haven't yet measured LPM, but will do at weekend as dark nights are here, and i have only run half a tank of diesel (40 liters/ 6 gall ish), what i have noticed is that the vehicle i have has a turbo inter-cooler on, so the configuration is such that the air intake is attached to the turbo and then a cooler attached to the turbo also, does this affect the results i should expect? or am i being a bit impatient?


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: myoldyourgold on December 13, 2011, 02:33:20 PM
James, Please give us the details of the vehicle and engine.  We should then be able to assist more accurately. 


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: james the leper on December 13, 2011, 11:39:40 PM
its a nissan terrano 2.7 deisel turbo intercooler 4 wheel drive 1996, hope that helps


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: myoldyourgold on December 14, 2011, 08:14:09 AM
James, I guess we will now need to know more detailed information about the reactor you are using. Pictures would be good too.  The absolute max HHO your generator could be making I suspect, with out knowing more about it, is 1.2 LPM.  You should at least feel a little difference when the reactor is turned on possibly in performance or sound.  Exhaust should be clean too.  You will need to double the out put.  I take it that this engine has a mechanical pump, not electronic fuel injection and if you can after increasing the output (might require another reactor) retard the pump injection timing by not more than 1.5.  To much and you will have starting problems and loss of power.  The inter-cooler might effect the quality of HHO but I doubt it because it will be so diluted with air by then that there should be no problem.  Exactly where are you injecting?


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: james the leper on December 14, 2011, 10:58:56 AM
This is the reactor i have bought, the rest of equipment is from previous cells

http://www.greenfuelh2o.com/HHO_on_demand_system_p/gfx1-13p.htm

As for photos, i will have to do that this weekend, i have injected the hho as near to the engine as possible, i have noted better acceleration, dont know about retarding the pump sounds a beyond my capabilities.

 How would i know if it is electronic fuel injection?

i will take some photos this weekend when it is light, which will probably give you a better idea of the set up. thanks jim


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: myoldyourgold on December 14, 2011, 04:42:16 PM
OK, now we just about have all the pieces.  The last bet of information is going to require you to test the amount of gas being produced.  Bottle test will do.  This is just a relative test.  Just need to know how many watts is being used per liter.  Unfortunately the quality/potency of  gas will be something we will not be able to check.  Just this one thing makes the difference between a gain and no gain in some cases. 


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: james the leper on December 18, 2011, 06:25:27 AM
ok tested LPM did it 3 times all giving 0.75 lpm at 18 amps. have also film to, cant get photos or film on. god knows how its done?


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: james the leper on December 18, 2011, 06:45:07 AM
ok heres a link for my u tube video,first time ive done this so hope it works

If it does, ill talk you through it as i didnt talk on it, first up is the generator, above can be seen the 50 amp shunt, after that it takes you to the return bubbler from there it goes out the top to a dryer to take out any moisture, from there into another bubbler filled with hydraulic oil, (dont know thats safe, but would prefer oil than water condensation going into engine), out of that bubbler through a flash back arrester into the end of the air inlet.

http://youtu.be/GbCJFc-ArSk





Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: james the leper on December 18, 2011, 06:54:41 AM
Ive also built a PWM yet to be fitted, my concerns are that it will overheat and melt the box ive put it in, plus not sure if will improve my LPM, anyway have a look see what you think.

https://picasaweb.google.com/leaper.jameskay/PWM?authuser=0&feat=directlink


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: myoldyourgold on December 18, 2011, 10:06:15 AM
The install looks good!  Make sure the filter/separator is not grounded to any metal.  You can safely run this reactor at 25 amps and you should see some improvement then, but really not enough gas.  It should make 1 lpm at 25 amps.   If the PWM will not handle the amps then run it without and just get the concentration of the electrolyte right.  Watch the temperature as you up the amps.  Keep in under 130 F.  You ideally need 2.5 lpm for maximum benefit.  You really need a bigger reactor that will handle more amps thus producing more HHO.   


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: james the leper on December 18, 2011, 11:04:07 AM
Filter/seperator not sure which part you mean, can you explain?


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: myoldyourgold on December 18, 2011, 11:19:00 AM
Simply any device that has metal that the HHO touches must not be grounded. 


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: james the leper on December 19, 2011, 12:06:24 AM
im sure everything that touches the hho is insulated thanks jim


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: james the leper on December 31, 2011, 06:23:34 AM
Bench testing power supplies.

Ive set everything up to test on the bench to test a PWM, however the power supply is no good, can anyone recomend what to get and where,( we dont have radio shack over here, the best thing is maplin or e bay),thanks jim?


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: myoldyourgold on December 31, 2011, 09:13:13 AM
The cheapest power supply is a 100 amp battery charger and a large 12V battery.  The battery charger should be an old type that does not have any smarts.  How this works is with the battery charger on, charging the battery, with the reactor hooked up to the battery, you will get the added voltage 13-14 Volts and you can draw up to 100 amps or more from the battery/battery charger.  This will be very similar as in a vehicle running at 13.8 volts.  You have to be careful that on extended use you are not overcharging the battery.  You have to be taking out at least what you are putting in.  Some batteries charge up to 12.7 volts.


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: hhoconnection on January 01, 2012, 10:47:37 AM
I have a good source for bench-top power supplies/ battery chargers. I can get them in 35, 45, 55, 75, and 100 amp versions. Here is a link to the 75 amp version and a link to a video where I am using it for a torch setup:

http://www.powermaxconverters.com/#/pm3-75/4551112141

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36lEXocd1BM

I don't have them for sale on my website yet but I can get them for you now if you want one. The 75 amp models are $159 plus $14 shipping. Just let me know if you want me to order you one (that applies to anyone on this forum).


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: HaD87 on January 06, 2012, 05:51:22 PM
Hi! I'm sure it's written somewhere, but i can't find it:) So, i need a quick answer on a tinny question:) How much of NaOH i should put per liter of water? I've built dry cell, and i want to try it tomorrow, but i can't find how much NaOH i need:) It's 7 plates (+nnnnn-) dry cell.
Please help:)


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: D.O.G. on January 06, 2012, 08:31:28 PM
Hi! I'm sure it's written somewhere, but i can't find it:) So, i need a quick answer on a tinny question:) How much of NaOH i should put per liter of water? I've built dry cell, and i want to try it tomorrow, but i can't find how much NaOH i need:) It's 7 plates (+nnnnn-) dry cell.
Please help:)
Maximum concentration is 20% by weight.
This means 1 part of NaOH to 4 parts water, ie: 200 grams NaOH + 800 grams (800ml) of water.

If you are using a PWM, it's OK going to maximum concentration, then controlling the current draw (amps) with the PWM.
This is useful if there's a chance of the system freezing where you live.

If possible freezing isn't an issue for you and/or you don't use a PWM, there's no need to run maximum concentration, just add enough NaOH to draw your desired current with the generator warmed up.
If you aren't sure how much that is, see my reply under the title "worrying" (Off Topic Discussions)  from yesterday.



Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: HaD87 on January 07, 2012, 04:02:18 AM
Thank you for quick answer!


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: james the leper on January 08, 2012, 03:12:40 AM
The cheapest power supply is a 100 amp battery charger and a large 12V battery.  The battery charger should be an old type that does not have any smarts.  How this works is with the battery charger on, charging the battery, with the reactor hooked up to the battery, you will get the added voltage 13-14 Volts and you can draw up to 100 amps or more from the battery/battery charger.  This will be very similar as in a vehicle running at 13.8 volts.  You have to be careful that on extended use you are not overcharging the battery.  You have to be taking out at least what you are putting in.  Some batteries charge up to 12.7 volts.


OK went for the battery and charger system, i hooked up the PWM and everything else and plugged it in, nothing happened! realised the PWM may be faulty, so i removed it, so connected system back up, still nothing!? now when i first started playing around with this it took me a while to get it going on the car, turned out it was a bad earth, do i need to earth the unit through the negative terminal? suggestions please, many thanks Jim.


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: D.O.G. on January 08, 2012, 04:13:24 AM
OK went for the battery and charger system, i hooked up the PWM and everything else and plugged it in, nothing happened! realised the PWM may be faulty, so i removed it, so connected system back up, still nothing!? now when i first started playing around with this it took me a while to get it going on the car, turned out it was a bad earth, do i need to earth the unit through the negative terminal? suggestions please, many thanks Jim.

Not entirely sure what you mean Jim, but both negative and positive terminals of the generator (to the plates) need to be connected to the battery/charger via fuse, relay, etc. The mounting bolts for the generator don't need to be connected to anything.


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: james the leper on January 08, 2012, 07:29:20 AM
Bench testing
well couldnt get any readings with no electrolyte in, so resulted in putting 40 grams in giving 7-8mv reading, i will put the PWM in line once its run a while.


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: myoldyourgold on January 08, 2012, 08:28:49 AM
Jim for bench testing this is how you should wire things.  Hook the battery charger to the battery positive to positive negative to negative.  Hook the positive plate to the positive terminal of the battery and hook the negative plate to the negative terminal of the battery.  Production should start. Turn on the battery charger and you should see an increase in production.  If the electrolyte is the right strength and there is no shorts in the reactor then you should be producing gas.  Be careful.  To be safe you can connect a fuse on the positive wire going to the reactor.  The battery charger if it has settings for different amps can be adjusted to the highest one for testing.  IF the reactor starts to get to hot turn the charger setting down.  Some battery chargers have two settings.  2 amps and 10 amps.  Some have a starting setting that is 50 amps or more but can only be used for a very short time or the charger will over heat shut down or burn out.   If the battery charger is a tickle charger (2 amp charger) it will not be of much use.   


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: james the leper on January 09, 2012, 12:06:07 AM
Ok, just to verify about the process of bench testing,

ive set myself a bench mark say 0.25 lpm at 40 grams, now i set the Pwm up, and basically turn the dial to any position, and take measurements, then turn the dial again and repeat process until i get the noticeable improvements in Lpm?

Also, i am building another generator, should i connect it to the other generator and run it as one unit, or should i run it stand alone with a separate Pwm?


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: james the leper on January 10, 2012, 12:06:35 AM
PWM-china

I bought a motor controler,(PWM) from alibaba.com,(other than price), whats the difference between the ones you buy from HHO connection and zero fossil fuels?


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here, Freezing
Post by: james the leper on January 15, 2012, 01:53:14 AM
well last night the outside temp dipped below -5deg C, the liquid didn't freeze but its pushed everything apart and leaked all over the bench!


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: myoldyourgold on January 15, 2012, 09:14:00 AM
This is why in the winter you have to run full strength electrolyte.  20% by weight of NaOH or 28% by weight for KOH.  With these mixtures you can go down much colder. 


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: james the leper on January 15, 2012, 09:23:17 AM
This is why in the winter you have to run full strength electrolyte.  20% by weight of NaOH or 28% by weight for KOH.  With these mixtures you can go down much colder. 

It had 28% in, i was running it with the Pwm on to see how it did, i was thinking it may have been the gasket or plastic contracting/expanding due to adverse temperatures


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: myoldyourgold on January 15, 2012, 09:59:09 AM
James, something is not right because the KOH will not freeze at -5 C. It freezes closer to -40 C at 28%.  http://koh.olinchloralkali.com/TechnicalInformation/PhaseDiagram.aspx (http://koh.olinchloralkali.com/TechnicalInformation/PhaseDiagram.aspx)  What material are you using for gaskets?  It is either that or your measurement was off.  I suggest you buy a hydrometer then there is less chance of a wrong calculation.  They are cheap and used to measure the electrolyte in batteries.  Just make sure the electrolyte is at room temperature 70 F or use a temperature chart to get it right.   Another problem could be the end plate material and how tight things were and a host of other things.  Make sure there is enough fasteners around the reactor to hold it together.  If the gasket or end plate material shrinks when cold to much then you might have a problem.  EPDM doesn't have this problem at least hasn't in my case.   Winter can be a real challenge in the frozen north!!


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: james the leper on January 15, 2012, 10:19:35 AM
James, something is not right because the KOH will not freeze at -5 C. It freezes closer to -40 C at 28%.  http://koh.olinchloralkali.com/TechnicalInformation/PhaseDiagram.aspx (http://koh.olinchloralkali.com/TechnicalInformation/PhaseDiagram.aspx)  What material are you using for gaskets?  It is either that or your measurement was off.  I suggest you buy a hydrometer then there is less chance of a wrong calculation.  They are cheap and used to measure the electrolyte in batteries.  Just make sure the electrolyte is at room temperature 70 F or use a temperature chart to get it right.   Another problem could be the end plate material and how tight things were and a host of other things.  Make sure there is enough fasteners around the reactor to hold it together.  If the gasket or end plate material shrinks when cold to much then you might have a problem.  EPDM doesn't have this problem at least hasn't in my case.   Winter can be a real challenge in the frozen north!!


I bought the generator from

 http://www.greenfuelh2o.com/HHO_on_demand_system_p/gfx1-13p.htm

i think the gasket are neoprene, but not sure

ive bought another 13 plates and gaskets to increase the output, so i will be striping it down this week, hopefully resealing and tightening everything up will solve the problem.


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: HaD87 on January 15, 2012, 10:52:54 AM
HEY! Great news! I made my first dry cell! And it worked:) I used NaOH for electolite. 170g on 900ml of destilated water. But, for some reason i draw only 4amps with 12.5v... Any suggestion why? Oh, yes, it was rather cold outside (8-10*C). Does that have effect?
And one more thing, i kinda blew up my bubbler :) So, i need some flashback arrestor. I tried to find bronze wool here in Serbia, but it's impossible task. So, i need some other system. Any suggestion and blueprints are more than welcomed:) Thank you all!


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: myoldyourgold on January 15, 2012, 11:18:27 AM
It looks like the reactor should be OK so it must have been the mixture.  When you put it back together make sure you warm it up and then re-tighten it after it cools down making sure all the bolts are equal.  I use springs on my reactors because if helps maintain equal pressure on things as they warm up and cool down.  You also might want to add a stiffener so the plastic does not bend,   I have gone to powdered coated 1/8 MS like in the picture below.

(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g215/yenom_1945/splittercomplete.jpg)


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: myoldyourgold on January 15, 2012, 11:25:05 AM
I suspect it is your power supply or electrolyte.  Add a car battery with the power supply connected to the battery charging it all the time the reactor is running and that should help.  What type and concentration of electrolyte are you using?   


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: HaD87 on January 15, 2012, 11:32:50 AM
170g of NaOH mixed with 900ml of water. So, it turn's up little less than 19%, if my math isn't wrong:) Cell is fine, only bubble is blown cos my "flashback arrestor" didn't arrest anything xD


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: myoldyourgold on January 15, 2012, 11:37:24 AM
Your math is plenty close enough.  Then to draw more amps you need a more powerful power supply.  What size are your plates?


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: HaD87 on January 15, 2012, 11:45:15 AM
137mm*102mm i don't know how much is it in inch...
edit: That is useful area of plates


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: myoldyourgold on January 15, 2012, 11:58:28 AM
What size are your gaskets?  By this I mean how wide not thick.  Plate size in inches is approx 5.4 x 4.2 inches.  I just want to calculate approx who much active area you have on one plate to see what amps you should not exceed.  I must add this too.  How many plates are you using and what is the configuration. 


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: HaD87 on January 15, 2012, 12:27:18 PM
Sorry for late answer. Measures i gave you are active area of plates:) But if you want to recalculate: 165x130mm plates, 14mm wide, 3mm thick. I'm using 7 plates. +nnnnn-
My power supply is battery charger, and it gives 12.5V.


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: myoldyourgold on January 15, 2012, 04:27:28 PM
You need to add a vehicle battery.  The battery charger by itself will not do it. 


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: james the leper on January 22, 2012, 07:03:11 AM
Having some problems, take a look and see if you can spot anything thats out of place, i have a 28% concentration.

http://youtu.be/2PZUBeHfyYs

basically, i am getting 0.35 LPM at high amps on 25 plates


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: lhazleton on January 22, 2012, 10:01:49 AM
Everything looks fine except for the power source.
Try running jumper cables from a running car directly to the reactor. Bet you'll see a huge difference! ;)


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: myoldyourgold on January 22, 2012, 10:13:33 AM
What is the rating of the shunt? (30 amps 50mv or?)  What is the voltage at the Reactor?   What is the measured voltage per cell, by this I mean are they quite close to the same? 25 plate do you mean it has 4 stacks of 5 bipolar plates (N's)?   What is the max amps of the battery charger? 


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: james the leper on January 22, 2012, 11:17:54 AM
Everything looks fine except for the power source.
Try running jumper cables from a running car directly to the reactor. Bet you'll see a huge difference! ;)

I got the unit from greenfuelh20, i watched a video from HHO connection, he was bench testing a 31 plate unit from greenfeulh20 without a PWM at 15amps about 14-15 volts he was getting 1LPM, i also noticed heavy duty cables used for connection, i am using 2.5mm2 , the cable he uses looks about 6-8mm2. It looks like i need a bigger generator and bigger cables.


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: james the leper on January 22, 2012, 11:21:25 AM
What is the rating of the shunt? (30 amps 50mv or?)  What is the voltage at the Reactor?   What is the measured voltage per cell, by this I mean are they quite close to the same? 25 plate do you mean it has 4 stacks of 5 bipolar plates (N's)?   What is the max amps of the battery charger? 

I will have to get back to you, had to turn it off due to over heating of battery charger, the charger is rated at 20 amp,it didnt like being run full on, the battery is 45 amp.


Title: Re: I lost my instructoins on how to connect my pwm.
Post by: Denny on January 26, 2012, 09:08:50 PM
Have something to say or ask and do not want to hand out your email address?

Use this posting or press the back button and submit a new subject - no registering required (this has changed due to continued spamming).

If you were to register you would be able to answer other postings in other parts of the forum. The only email contact you would receive would be occasional forum contact announcing some new finding. On average there has been one email from the Forum every three months.


Title: efie
Post by: jchamp on February 27, 2012, 07:59:56 AM
Have something to say or ask?

You can either search out the relevant section of the forum for detailed questions or comments, or just throw a quickie here  :)Hi my name is james. just ordered a hho generator from e-bay and I need to know what else I need to make it work. ( HHO HYDROGEN GENERATOR Starter Cell 045 Unit & Basic Hook... the ball jar type. I have a 2007 chevy cobalt LS with a 2.2 eng. I don't know if I need a efie or some kind of power chip. Was very glad to find this site. Thanks for all the help you can give.


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: HaD87 on April 16, 2012, 11:17:17 AM
Good people off hho community, i need help!

I've built 7 plates dry cell, with 5 neutral plates. Effective area of plates is 5.4in x 4.2in. Electrolyte is made with NaOH. 200g of NaOH mixed with 1l of water.
Power supply is a car battery connected to a charger.
My problem is, that i can't get more than 0.5lpm. Cell is running for hours now, it doesn't heat, volts between plates are from 1.9v to 2.0v... It takes no more than 6amp...
What am i doing wrong? Why can't i get 1lpm? And why it doesn't take more than 6amp?
Please, help! I really wish to make this thing work as it should.


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: myoldyourgold on April 17, 2012, 12:00:29 AM
I suspect your battery charger.  You need a charger that can put out at least 50 amps to work.  I use a battery charger and a large battery but the charger can put out 100 amps.  If you have a battery charger that puts only 10 amps that could be your problem.   Use some jumper cables and hook it up to your car with it running and I think you will see a difference.  If not let us know and I will give you some tests to see if we can solve the problem.   The other thing you can do is add another 100g more of NaOH.   Lots of people are using 400 plus grams per liter. 


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: HaD87 on April 17, 2012, 02:11:26 AM
My battery charger puts exactly 10amps :) so, that's the problem. Ok, then i'll head to search for new charger and then i'll see. Thanks!


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: myoldyourgold on April 17, 2012, 06:51:13 AM
Before you spend the money on a larger battery charger, I suggest you try the other things first.  For one the car runs at 13.8 Volts to 14 volts and that makes a big difference.   Hooking up the reactor with battery cables to the car battery with the car running will show you that there is not some other problem if the amps go up.  The other was to increase your electrolyte by 100 grams and if the amps do not go up then it is more likely to be the battery charger.   I just do not want anyone to unnecessarily spend more money where it is not needed. 


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: HaD87 on April 17, 2012, 02:14:46 PM
Thanks, I was planing to do that. Firstly to check it like that, then if it's to charger, to take one, cos i want to do more stuff with HHO. Not just to put it in car :)


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: james the leper on May 29, 2012, 12:45:43 PM
Ok ive just added a 13 plate generator 200mm * 200mm square to my existing 25 plate 150mm * 100mm, the 25 plate was producing a little 0.6 LPM ive now added a larger unit as well as the existing unit and i am now getting 0.5 LPM ?!

Cant figure that out, so if anyone has any ideas please tell.

I have a 28% mix ratio and i am pulling 36mv via a shunt 75mv at 50amp. I also have a 30 amp PWM connected which i have cranked right up, (i am expecting the fuse to blow).

I intend to change the Mix incase i miscalculated, other than that i have no idea, any comments appreciated.

video shows the set up


http://youtu.be/55ixzr1b92Y




Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: james the leper on May 29, 2012, 12:47:56 PM
watch this video for engine set up.

http://youtu.be/b9xbVv3Igvg


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: D.O.G. on May 29, 2012, 07:38:18 PM
watch this video for engine set up.

http://youtu.be/b9xbVv3Igvg
Jim,
I replied on that other forum in regards to voltage drop, but hadn't watched your video at that time.
The simplest explanation might be that you have a gas leak. You've got a lot of extra connections now, and I've read posts of people complaining about gas leaks around the lid of reservoirs like yours.

Just a thought. :P


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: watchitburn47 on June 06, 2012, 01:42:17 AM
I'm a CNG/CSA certified technician, and i have been doing a lot of natural gas conversions lately, due to high demand for lower cost fuel. I'm new to the forum, and am planning on building, an HHO. I am a machinist, and obviously have access to all the necessary tools to be able to build, a great HHO Generator. I was wondering where i should start? Dry Cell? Wet Cell? However i have a few ways in which i can implement the HHO into the intake manifold, and plenum, to create a more efficient gas delivery system, one of which i have never seen on any of these threads, i was wondering if any of you here had any ideas for me or any suggestions you would like to see done?


Title: HHO on diesel
Post by: Dutchy78 on June 08, 2012, 02:48:26 AM
Hi all, I am very new to the HHO scene, been reading about it for a few weeks now, finding it hard to get out of my head and go to sleep at night hehe. Anyone tried it on a diesel? Nearly all the docs/videos so far all feature petrol engines. I own a 2,5L turbo diesel 4x4 and wondering what would work best for that?


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: Dutchy78 on June 11, 2012, 03:11:06 AM
whats your opinion on how many amps to draw before the alternator has to work too hard to make a difference?


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: fossell on June 24, 2012, 08:11:27 PM
I'm a CNG/CSA certified technician, and i have been doing a lot of natural gas conversions lately, due to high demand for lower cost fuel. I'm new to the forum, and am planning on building, an HHO. I am a machinist, and obviously have access to all the necessary tools to be able to build, a great HHO Generator. I was wondering where i should start? Dry Cell? Wet Cell? However i have a few ways in which i can implement the HHO into the intake manifold, and plenum, to create a more efficient gas delivery system, one of which i have never seen on any of these threads, i was wondering if any of you here had any ideas for me or any suggestions you would like to see done?
You have got me thinking can a engine run on hho like it runs on lpg? if it can can it be supplied to the engine the same way ?
 


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: fossell on June 28, 2012, 12:11:39 AM
whats your opinion on how many amps to draw before the alternator has to work too hard to make a difference?
Opinion huuuum   well what is the size of motor, size of alternater,size of battery ??if it is used at all & how  heavey are the wire,s being used  ??? ??? ::) ???  MY OPINION   ;)  It can be worked out useing a maths formula what that is i don't know


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: fossell on June 28, 2012, 07:29:53 PM
iv been reading and reading and its getting that way that one person says one thing and then some one learns a new way to do this or that  ::) its very confusing for new people to this forum (my opinion only so far) i under stand that there is allot of info here but is there any way to decifer it and get the best at the moment  i dont mean to say buy this brand or that brand no but from what im reading dri cell is putting out the best HHO lpm (yes i know thAT some say they use both dri and wet cell tech yeeer) but i came on to this forum hopeing to learn what is getting the best out put for average jo blo in the street i have been thinking about useing HHO for a while many years and so far from looking at this forum it has not progressed much i want to use this technology but every were i look or read there seams to be brick walls .  could the forum do some kind of test of all the people using HHO at the moment and what out put they are getting lpm and then lets gather all the data and see witch one is working the best and that way we will all know what is the best at that date and can start to improve from that point if we want or if we are happy with that out put than we can build a system the same useing ow own parts or parts bought from a suppler
 OK hope this is read with compassion i believe in HHO and helping others get cheaper fuel alternatives just like it made useing the old (KISS) system 
                                                               


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: james the leper on July 01, 2012, 10:17:23 AM
I was about to have my pump retarded by one degree, but then thought, doesn't the fuel have to be reduced to match the increase in hho supply. Not knowing how that is done, are the two done at the same time and as i understand i have to caliberate the fuel mix, so this would mean a number of adjustments to the fuel. What is the procedure? do i get the pump altered one degree and see how it goes, or alter the fuel mix at the same time. I need to explain this to my mechanic, so if anyone can give me a procedure that he would understand, i would appreciate it. thanks jim


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: fossell on July 05, 2012, 05:03:13 AM
I was about to have my pump retarded by one degree, but then thought, doesn't the fuel have to be reduced to match the increase in hho supply. Not knowing how that is done, are the two done at the same time and as i understand i have to caliberate the fuel mix, so this would mean a number of adjustments to the fuel. What is the procedure? do i get the pump altered one degree and see how it goes, or alter the fuel mix at the same time. I need to explain this to my mechanic, so if anyone can give me a procedure that he would understand, i would appreciate it. thanks jim
Altering the pump timing  dos not alter the amount of fuel it just changes When the fuel is injected . HHO changes the way the fuel burns . Depending on a number of thing.s "Condition of Injectors, and Motor, and Pump, and the Weather "and a lot more , But your main aim is to improve on what you are all ready getting fuel wise and power.  HHO when added to the fuel will alter the way it burns so by changing the timing of when it is injected  (may) can improve power . Do some more reading on here . and get your mechanic to read up about HHO and how it alters the Fuel Burn Time . (If he doesn't want too  ::) Get a new mechanic but that's my own opinion) ;D


Title: Re: Quick Question or Comment Here
Post by: myoldyourgold on July 06, 2012, 08:10:29 AM
There is always more than one way to skin a cat.  This is why there are so many different posts that seam to contradict each otherr.  Here is a some of basics in regards to diesels.   Volume of HHO injected dictates, if you retard, how much you retard or how much leaning you do in a diesel or other fuels for that matter.  Leaning on most mechanical diesel pumps is not easy and requires you to remove the pump and take it to a shop that has the right equipment and knowledge.  To revert back to stock requires the same thing or just to make some changes, and this can get very costly.  EFI diesels require programing or a add-on controller but can be reversed or changed a lot easier.  The small amounts of HHO being injected by most require no retarding but gains will be limited but still quite worth it when done right.  To require retarding you need to inject more than 4% of the total volume of air being used by the engine but not always there are exceptions.  To exceed the 4% is a large amount of HHO.  Here is the exception.  In my testing I have found that under the right conditions other things are happening in some HHO reactors and in the compression stroke that make it necessary to retard even with small amounts of HHO.  This needs to be tested much more and maybe we can discover what is happening and why.  Normally with .5-1 LPM of HHO per Liter of engine size or less, in a diesel, one dose not need any retarding.  Leaning is totally a different ball game and I will not advise it on a mechanical pump, unless you have a very good HHO system that is reliable, and know exactly what you are doing.  Leaning also requires a lot more HHO which comes with another set of problems.  Keep it simple and do not expect to get 200 MPG.  LOL