Hydrogen, Fuel Catalyst and Alternative Fuel Forum

NEWBIE INFORMATION - Basic Stuff You Must Know If You Are New To HHO => Bubblers & Flashback Arrestors => Topic started by: karmagos on June 24, 2011, 01:17:40 AM



Title: Bubbler construction
Post by: karmagos on June 24, 2011, 01:17:40 AM
I want to build a bubbler to my kit.

Could you suggest me the above things.

Fluid properties (water, alochol)
Air diffusier (Air stone etc.)
Materials (PVC)

Any other tips.

Thank you.


Title: Re: Bubbler construction
Post by: myoldyourgold on June 24, 2011, 08:42:18 AM
Two things I have found in bubbler construction that are important are, the bubbles must be small and the distance they travel through the liquid is important.  Tall skinny bubblers are better than short fat ones.  Remember that the tiny bubbles coming out of an air stone only get cleaned on the out side of the bubble.  The inside still carries electrolyte until it bursts.  The perfect setup is to burst every bubble after it has been cleaned on the outside so you can clean the inside.   It then forms a new bubble which is hopefully clean both on the inside and the outside.  How this is done....well there are a number of different designs out there some are posted on this forum.  I am making some major changes in my design and when I am satisfied it is working the way I want it to I will post the information.  The air stone I use is expensive and made out of plastic.  It has worked very well now for many years with very little maintenance.  Here is the link for the diffuser.  Make sure you order the right one to handle the volume you need. 1 CFM is = to 28.32 LPM

http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/1560/Porous-Plastic-Diffusers/air%20stone/4 (http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/1560/Porous-Plastic-Diffusers/air%20stone/4)

A well designed reactor and reservoir will limit the amount of electrolyte exiting the reservoir.  I am making changes to in my reservoir design to improve on this problem.  A reactor that runs cool and does not need as much electrolyte flowing through it to help keep it cool but only needs to maintain the right level of electrolyte is what my goal is.  

The liquid in the bubbler in summer can be distilled water but in winter you need to add alcohol if you live in the frozen north.  I add 20% but am not satisfied because of the daily maintance.  I am still working on a slightly acidic oil based liquid with the help of a major company and when that is complete it should be available commercially to use year around.   I have no idea what the cost will be and testing is on going to find out how often you need to change it and how to measure the acidity level easily to know when to change it as it slowly becomes alkaline over many hours of running HHO through it.  Test are also being done on the effects on combustion when very small amounts get carried into the engine and how it effects the exhaust gases etc.   


Title: Re: Bubbler construction
Post by: karmagos on June 24, 2011, 02:23:23 PM
Have you ever used CO2 diffusier?


Title: Re: Bubbler construction
Post by: myoldyourgold on June 25, 2011, 08:03:16 AM
Any diffuser will work that: does not restrict the flow to much, can tolerate the alkaline atmosphere, breaks the gas up into very small bubbles, is sized for the proper LPM, and is easy to clean if necessary with harsh chemicals.   I have not had to clean mine because by the time I use a bubbler the reactor has proven to be free of any contamination. 


Title: Re: Bubbler construction
Post by: Dutchy78 on June 16, 2012, 10:13:48 PM
I am thinking of using One bubbler and a compressed air style dryer. have you heard of people using these successfully or would 2 bubblers be better?


Title: Re: Bubbler construction
Post by: D.O.G. on June 16, 2012, 11:24:50 PM
A word of warning when using plastic compressed air fittings of any sort (thinking of your dryer).

Check their construction materials for compatibility with hydrogen and/or whichever electrolyte you use, I'd check a few chemical compatibility charts, because they don't always agree with each other.

When I first started, I had a few fittings disintegrate after weeks of use, always on the "dry" parts of the system.


Title: Re: Bubbler construction
Post by: Dutchy78 on June 17, 2012, 01:11:42 AM
I will be using brass fittings but you've got me thinking about the plastic bowl of the dryer that says do not use solvents for cleaning


Title: Re: Bubbler construction
Post by: nermalfrodo on November 19, 2012, 08:14:53 PM
Two things I have found in bubbler construction that are important are, the bubbles must be small and the distance they travel through the liquid is important.  Tall skinny bubblers are better than short fat ones.  Remember that the tiny bubbles coming out of an air stone only get cleaned on the out side of the bubble.  The inside still carries electrolyte until it bursts.  The perfect setup is to burst every bubble after it has been cleaned on the outside so you can clean the inside.   It then forms a new bubble which is hopefully clean both on the inside and the outside.  How this is done....well there are a number of different designs out there some are posted on this forum.  I am making some major changes in my design and when I am satisfied it is working the way I want it to I will post the information.  The air stone I use is expensive and made out of plastic.  It has worked very well now for many years with very little maintenance.  Here is the link for the diffuser.  Make sure you order the right one to handle the volume you need. 1 CFM is = to 28.32 LPM

http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/1560/Porous-Plastic-Diffusers/air%20stone/4 (http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/1560/Porous-Plastic-Diffusers/air%20stone/4)

A well designed reactor and reservoir will limit the amount of electrolyte exiting the reservoir.  I am making changes to in my reservoir design to improve on this problem.  A reactor that runs cool and does not need as much electrolyte flowing through it to help keep it cool but only needs to maintain the right level of electrolyte is what my goal is.  

The liquid in the bubbler in summer can be distilled water but in winter you need to add alcohol if you live in the frozen north.  I add 20% but am not satisfied because of the daily maintance.  I am still working on a slightly acidic oil based liquid with the help of a major company and when that is complete it should be available commercially to use year around.   I have no idea what the cost will be and testing is on going to find out how often you need to change it and how to measure the acidity level easily to know when to change it as it slowly becomes alkaline over many hours of running HHO through it.  Test are also being done on the effects on combustion when very small amounts get carried into the engine and how it effects the exhaust gases etc.   


What if we were to use antifreeze in colder climates?  Or even salt in the bubbler?  Would they clean electrolytes out of it, or would they add to it?


Title: Re: Bubbler construction
Post by: myoldyourgold on November 21, 2012, 09:58:56 AM
Quote
What if we were to use antifreeze in colder climates?  Or even salt in the bubbler?  Would they clean electrolytes out of it, or would they add to it?

The best solution for harsh winters is a dry filter.  A number of people are working on them and there should be at least one available this winter you can buy or build.  I have been using an oil based product in my bubblers that is made to be mixed with the fuel to treat the upper end of the engine so what little that does go out is actually helpful to the engine and it neutralizes any electrolyte that has escaped.  It does have a foaming problem if to much electrolyte is escaping but not one you cannot control.  Antifreeze looses its ability to not freeze after bubbling HHO through it for a while.  I think the alcohol in it evaporates so needs to be changed quite often.  There are some other problems too with it but they do not come to mind at the moment.   


Title: Re: Bubbler construction
Post by: JUAN45 on June 18, 2014, 05:30:05 AM
hola soy nuevo en le foro,vivo en argentina, provincia de santa fe,  hace 4 meses que estoy con HHO tengo algun problema con el flashback arrestor, les comento, tube barias explociones en el burbugeador, el flashback arrestor lo construi como todos, quiciera saber en que estoy fallando. grasias.


Title: Re: Bubbler construction
Post by: PDJ on June 25, 2014, 06:24:07 PM
Hola allí y Bienvenido al foro. Me alegra que decidido a que nos visite y estoy seguro de que encontrará una gran cantidad de información disponible para usted.

Con tu publicación en español, obviamente no desea leer en inglés. Esto está bien, a ver este foro en otro idioma - copiar la dirección de este foro y visitar http://www.microsofttranslator.com/Default.aspx?ref=IE8Activity - el foro entero y todos los posteos estará en el idioma de su elección.

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Estoy usando este traductor y escribir en inglés. Aunque estoy usando signos de puntuación y estructura de la oración aceptable para inglés, algunas palabras pueden parecer fuera de lugar pero estoy seguro de que la mayoría de la información se entenderán fácilmente.

Disfrútalo.

Paul
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