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Author Topic: Quick Question or Comment Here  (Read 61225 times)
unoassassin
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« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2011, 11:14:27 AM »

I make a ZFF clone duel channel , ( two O2's ) Zero's can be used for old and new O2's just by swaping the two wires .
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« Reply #26 on: September 19, 2011, 08:40:56 PM »

Hi, I am just asking a few quick questions. I am going to make a dry cell hho generator and I was wondering how thick of 316 stainless steel I should use and where I could find some. I was also wondering what the best thing for the sides would be. Plexiglas?
I am also wondering if I will need a special chip or anything to make it work better on my car. I have a 1996 Jeep Grand Cherokee. There is also limited room under the hood. Any suggestions about reservoirs?
Thanks!
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lhazleton
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« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2011, 06:27:38 AM »

Jacob,
  Welcome to the forum. For the plates, your best bet would be 18 ga. 316L. For endplates, NEVER use plexiglass. It'll just crack. Use 1/2" or 3/4" HDPE instead.
For the Jeep, assuming it's a 4.0L, you'll need to build a reactor capable of producing at least 2LPM @ 30 amps..
  Additionally, since it's an OBD1 model, you should be able to get away with a single narrowband EFIE for electronics. A 2 quart reservoir will work fine. As far as where to fit everything, you'll need to be creative. Look around, as there are lots of people out there with similar Jeeps running HHO.
  Above all, do lots of research before building anything and good luck!
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« Reply #28 on: September 20, 2011, 08:15:53 PM »

Ok thanks!
Do you know where I could get a good one of those EFIEs? My Jeep is actually a 5.2 if that makes any difference. I have been doing a lot of research and I think I am ready to try to build a dry cell. Do people usually just order the parts online? I can't find any stainless steel anywhere.
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lhazleton
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« Reply #29 on: September 21, 2011, 06:41:09 AM »

Ok, for a 5.2L you need a reactor that will put out at least 2.6LPM. Your best bet would be to build two reactors since there is minimal available space.
For an EFIE, your best bet would be http://www.fuelsaver-mpg.com
As far as getting the necessary materials for a build, I have no idea where you live, so I can't help you there. I'm able to get everything (except KOH) locally.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2011, 09:42:41 PM by PDJ » Logged

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james the leper
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« Reply #30 on: September 27, 2011, 11:16:45 AM »

ive just fitted a 50 amp shunt inline with my generator and the battery, i am not really sure what the shunt does, but i think, and please correct me, it somehow factors down the voltage/amps. Ive put this in after looking through u-tube about amp measurements and they have a shunt fitted.

So i took a measurement using my UNI-T UT50C amp meter;

first i put the leads in COM (black) and 20A (red), i then set the dail to the highest setting 20A

The reading was 0.03A

secondly i put the lead in COM (black) and mA (red), i then set the dail to 20m

The reading was 0.063mA

two totally different readings, anyone tell me why, and what they mean?

When i bench tested it i got 2 amp reading.

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HHOPWR
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« Reply #31 on: September 27, 2011, 10:42:39 PM »

First, A shunt is used to measure amp draw. The shunt will have a known miliamp drop between the check points on either end. You can tell the check points because there will be screws to hook your leads from your voltmeter to. Every shunt can be different. There should be markings on it. A 1 to 1 shunt will read 1 milivolt for every amp that is traveling through it. A .5 to 1 shunt will read .5 milliamps for every amp that travels through it. Once you know the voltage drop through your shunt you can read exact amperage with a simple volt meter. It is the most accurate way to determine exactly how many amps your reactor is drawing. Other than that your shunt will do nothing. The amp drop is negligable so it won't change the performance of your reactor. For example if you have a 1 to 1 shunt your reactor would have to draw 100 amps to drop your voltage to the reactor by only 1/10th of a volt. That would not change the output by any measurable amount unless you had a very very very effecient reactor. If you had one you would already know what a shunt does.

Larry
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james the leper
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« Reply #32 on: September 28, 2011, 10:22:27 AM »

i lookthe shunt and writing on its sides say 50A 75mv and FL-2/0.5 does that mean for every .5 amp read equals 2 amps in practice?
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myoldyourgold
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« Reply #33 on: September 29, 2011, 08:05:15 AM »

I have been waiting for someone who uses his multimeter to measure the amps through a shunt to answer this question but see no one has stepped forward.  I use a matching lab grade meters with all my shunts not my multimeter so might not have this right.

A 50A / 75mv shunt means it will measure up to 50amps and 75mv on your mv scale will equal 50 amps.  25 amps will be 37.5mv or 1.5 mv per amp.  All my shunts have 4 screws 2 larger and 2 smaller the smaller ones are where you hook up the meter and the larger 2 are for the main connections.  The shunt is in series on one leg going to the reactor.
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james the leper
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« Reply #34 on: September 29, 2011, 12:07:34 PM »

at last, now i know how to measure the amps. i am getting 5.8mv so i work that out to be 3.9 amps which is what i was getting when bench testing, thankyou all.
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D.O.G.
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« Reply #35 on: September 29, 2011, 01:07:19 PM »

A word of caution.
Most garden variety shunts are only accurate (+/- 1% or worse) at the top end of the scale.
This means at 50A it will give a reliable reading, but 3.9A is less than 10% of full scale and the accuracy may be far worse.

I'd check your readings by temporarily removing the shunt and substituting your multimeter (on a low range) in it's place. If the readings match you can have more confidence in the readings you have now.

Pete.
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james the leper
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« Reply #36 on: September 29, 2011, 01:25:10 PM »

if i could i would, however this is the first time i have got a reading using a multimeter, when i attempt to take a reading with my 20amp max dc, meter, it flat lines, i have yet to get an answer as to why this happens.
I would say, being an ametur, that i may be using the meter wrong, yet i have an instruction manual which is very simple to use.
However if the following post had not been displayed

I have been waiting for someone who uses his multimeter to measure the amps through a shunt to answer this question but see no one has stepped forward.  I use a matching lab grade meters with all my shunts not my multimeter so might not have this right.

A 50A / 75mv shunt means it will measure up to 50amps and 75mv on your mv scale will equal 50 amps.  25 amps will be 37.5mv or 1.5 mv per amp.  All my shunts have 4 screws 2 larger and 2 smaller the smaller ones are where you hook up the meter and the larger 2 are for the main connections.  The shunt is in series on one leg going to the reactor.

I would of never known to use volts, mV, to measure amps.

So if the use of the volts range and not amp range is the way to get a meter reading accurately, please let me know.

Many thanks Jim
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HHOPWR
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« Reply #37 on: September 29, 2011, 10:48:18 PM »

Your shunt is the most accurate way you can possibly measure amps. Here is the kicker. If your max amps is 50 then you should use a shunt that is rated at least for 75 amps. You should never ever use a shunt at its maximum for any more than a few minutes. As any metal increases in temperature its resistance also increases. Since the amperage is measured by known voltage drop through a known distance of a known amount of metal and metal increases its resistance with higher temperatures it is imperative to keep it cool. The flip side is that the margin for error is greater the lower the amp draw is. rest assured that using a shunt you will be far more accurate than with any other method.

Larry
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james the leper
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« Reply #38 on: October 12, 2011, 11:09:53 AM »

Quick question?

I wanted to fit a voltage switch to the battery, to prevent the generator producing HHO if the ignition is switched on and the engine isn't running. I was recommended a 7amp one from a place in California

 http://www.solarpanelstore.com/solar-power.small-charge-controllers.eco-energy.voltage_switch.info.1.html

unfortunately they don't ship to UK, so i found one from a UK supplier, however reading about these switches they only switch on and off at specific voltages, (11.9 and 14.4), so that would mean that the generator would still work until the voltage dropped to 11.9 volts.

So, Question does this switch operate, (turn on), only when the alternator is turning and supplying the battery or does it operate when the battery voltage reaches a certain voltage?
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myoldyourgold
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« Reply #39 on: October 12, 2011, 11:55:23 AM »

James, I can not see how that switch can work.  I am not an electrical engineer and only have simple knowledge of electronics.  I have tested these switches and the one I use is adjustable as to where is turns on and off.  Mine is set to 13 volts as the turn on point and I think 15 volts to shut off which it will never reach if I remember.  Batteries can charge up to 12.7 or more volts so you need the switch to turn on things at a higher voltage 13 volts or higher.  I know of no way to isolate it from the battery and only turn on when voltage is being created by the alternator.  Maybe D.O.G. can help out here but do not think it is possible at least not without adding additional electronics.   D.O.G. uses a vacuum switch.  Unfortunately they are expensive but you might be able to find a surplus one or a used one that will work cheap enough. 

I tried to use the switch to shut off the reactor at idle but a good alternator produces to much voltage at idle to work in almost all cases and you are limited by a range between on and off so there has to be quite a big difference.    Works great on my 53 International truck though with a generator.  LOL   I was told with some added electronics it could be made to work but not worth the expense. 
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ONE Liter per minute per 10 amps which just isn't possible Ha Ha
D.O.G.
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« Reply #40 on: October 15, 2011, 05:08:36 AM »

Quick question?

I wanted to fit a voltage switch to the battery, to prevent the generator producing HHO if the ignition is switched on and the engine isn't running. I was recommended a 7amp one from a place in California

 http://www.solarpanelstore.com/solar-power.small-charge-controllers.eco-energy.voltage_switch.info.1.html

unfortunately they don't ship to UK, so i found one from a UK supplier, however reading about these switches they only switch on and off at specific voltages, (11.9 and 14.4), so that would mean that the generator would still work until the voltage dropped to 11.9 volts.

So, Question does this switch operate, (turn on), only when the alternator is turning and supplying the battery or does it operate when the battery voltage reaches a certain voltage?
This type of voltage switch is designed to protect batteries in standby or storage applications, it's not what you need.

This might be what you need, http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=KC5377&form=CAT2&SUBCATID=965#11
I haven't used this kit, but it's versatile enough that you should be able to use it to control when your reactor turns on/off by sensing many of your engine sensor voltages.

Another alternative is, http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=KC5378&form=CAT2&SUBCATID=965#11
Again, I haven't used this kit, but sensing engine RPM to switch your reactor ( or VSS, or any other frequency based signal) could be useful.

I'm using a digital vacuum switch on my system because my carburettor test car (no sensors) gives me limited options for reactor control.

The other very basic safety control is to use the engine's oil pressure switch signal. How you do this varies with the type of pressure switch/sensor your engine uses.
I'd use something like this, http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=KG9142&form=CAT2&SUBCATID=965#11 and use it to switch a larger relay.

There is no "best" solution to reactor control, because each engine management design has it's own quirks and each HHO experimenter has his own ideas. What works well for me may be useless for you, but the above kits are versatile enough that there should be something you can use.

Pete. Smiley
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robonut1
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« Reply #41 on: October 15, 2011, 01:20:08 PM »

So I have not been looing around on this site and cannot seem to figure out what the difference between a dry and wet cell is. Can someone explain this to me?
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lhazleton
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« Reply #42 on: October 15, 2011, 02:50:29 PM »

A basic, quickie answer is:
A wet cell (YUK) is when the plates, spiral wires, or whatever is used for electrodes sits in an open bath of electrolyte. These are basically bombs waiting to go off and are very inefficient. Angry
A dry cell design is when a series of plates (usually 8 plates per stack  -NNNNNN+) are totally enclosed and electrolyte is fed between the plates from a remote reservoir. These are very efficient and give good results. Grin
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« Reply #43 on: October 15, 2011, 02:51:57 PM »

So I have not been looing around on this site and cannot seem to figure out what the difference between a dry and wet cell is. Can someone explain this to me?
a wet cell is a plate array submersed in water housed in a plastic container.
A dry cell is a series of plates separated with gaskets and when built correctly it can be very efficient and much safer due to power connection being on the out side of the reactor. "D"
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« Reply #44 on: October 15, 2011, 03:26:34 PM »

Damn Darrell, ya gotta copy everything I say?  Grin
Looks like we posted at the same time, eh? Usually, only Gus does that! Wink
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« Reply #45 on: October 15, 2011, 04:58:56 PM »

Thanks guys. HHO is something I have just found out about but I am very interested in. I am sure I will have plenty more questions.
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myoldyourgold
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« Reply #46 on: October 15, 2011, 05:32:14 PM »


Quote
the difference between a dry and wet cell is

Asshat was the one that started the dry cell/reactor name.  Made no sense but stuck.   It was first called a sealed series reactor but that was to technical for some.  Now you know the rest of the story.

Everyone was building wet reactors so the defination was not needed.  Darrell's defenition is right on. 
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ONE Liter per minute per 10 amps which just isn't possible Ha Ha
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« Reply #47 on: October 16, 2011, 12:02:52 AM »

Damn Darrell, ya gotta copy everything I say?  Grin
Looks like we posted at the same time, eh? Usually, only Gus does that! Wink

Lee great minds think alike....  Hee Hee!!!
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hhoconnection
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« Reply #48 on: October 16, 2011, 08:24:10 AM »

So I have not been looing around on this site and cannot seem to figure out what the difference between a dry and wet cell is. Can someone explain this to me?

Watch this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQOxWXRsLB4

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lhazleton
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« Reply #49 on: October 16, 2011, 08:59:22 AM »

Very good, Mike!  Grin
I wish Paul would take all of your videos and make them a sticky right on top of the main page! Shocked (hint, hint)
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