Hydrogen, Fuel Catalyst and Alternative Fuel Forum
November 17, 2017, 11:24:47 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: **** Latest 2017 estimates are that we have between 50 and 89 years of Fossil Fuels left based on present production - We have an obligation to humanity to explore all possible Fossil Fuel alternatives...... Do your bit for humanity and invite all your friends to this Forum.........
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Send this topic  |  Print  
Author Topic: Bubbler construction  (Read 27597 times)
karmagos
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 56



« on: June 24, 2011, 01:17:40 AM »

I want to build a bubbler to my kit.

Could you suggest me the above things.

Fluid properties (water, alochol)
Air diffusier (Air stone etc.)
Materials (PVC)

Any other tips.

Thank you.
Logged
myoldyourgold
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1168



« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2011, 08:42:18 AM »

Two things I have found in bubbler construction that are important are, the bubbles must be small and the distance they travel through the liquid is important.  Tall skinny bubblers are better than short fat ones.  Remember that the tiny bubbles coming out of an air stone only get cleaned on the out side of the bubble.  The inside still carries electrolyte until it bursts.  The perfect setup is to burst every bubble after it has been cleaned on the outside so you can clean the inside.   It then forms a new bubble which is hopefully clean both on the inside and the outside.  How this is done....well there are a number of different designs out there some are posted on this forum.  I am making some major changes in my design and when I am satisfied it is working the way I want it to I will post the information.  The air stone I use is expensive and made out of plastic.  It has worked very well now for many years with very little maintenance.  Here is the link for the diffuser.  Make sure you order the right one to handle the volume you need. 1 CFM is = to 28.32 LPM

http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/1560/Porous-Plastic-Diffusers/air%20stone/4

A well designed reactor and reservoir will limit the amount of electrolyte exiting the reservoir.  I am making changes to in my reservoir design to improve on this problem.  A reactor that runs cool and does not need as much electrolyte flowing through it to help keep it cool but only needs to maintain the right level of electrolyte is what my goal is.  

The liquid in the bubbler in summer can be distilled water but in winter you need to add alcohol if you live in the frozen north.  I add 20% but am not satisfied because of the daily maintance.  I am still working on a slightly acidic oil based liquid with the help of a major company and when that is complete it should be available commercially to use year around.   I have no idea what the cost will be and testing is on going to find out how often you need to change it and how to measure the acidity level easily to know when to change it as it slowly becomes alkaline over many hours of running HHO through it.  Test are also being done on the effects on combustion when very small amounts get carried into the engine and how it effects the exhaust gases etc.   
« Last Edit: June 24, 2011, 08:54:23 AM by myoldyourgold » Logged

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb."

ONE Liter per minute per 10 amps which just isn't possible Ha Ha
karmagos
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 56



« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2011, 02:23:23 PM »

Have you ever used CO2 diffusier?
Logged
myoldyourgold
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1168



« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2011, 08:03:16 AM »

Any diffuser will work that: does not restrict the flow to much, can tolerate the alkaline atmosphere, breaks the gas up into very small bubbles, is sized for the proper LPM, and is easy to clean if necessary with harsh chemicals.   I have not had to clean mine because by the time I use a bubbler the reactor has proven to be free of any contamination. 
Logged

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb."

ONE Liter per minute per 10 amps which just isn't possible Ha Ha
Dutchy78
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 27


« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2012, 10:13:48 PM »

I am thinking of using One bubbler and a compressed air style dryer. have you heard of people using these successfully or would 2 bubblers be better?
Logged
D.O.G.
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 148



« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2012, 11:24:50 PM »

A word of warning when using plastic compressed air fittings of any sort (thinking of your dryer).

Check their construction materials for compatibility with hydrogen and/or whichever electrolyte you use, I'd check a few chemical compatibility charts, because they don't always agree with each other.

When I first started, I had a few fittings disintegrate after weeks of use, always on the "dry" parts of the system.
Logged

Dutchy78
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 27


« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2012, 01:11:42 AM »

I will be using brass fittings but you've got me thinking about the plastic bowl of the dryer that says do not use solvents for cleaning
Logged
nermalfrodo
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 15



« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2012, 08:14:53 PM »

Two things I have found in bubbler construction that are important are, the bubbles must be small and the distance they travel through the liquid is important.  Tall skinny bubblers are better than short fat ones.  Remember that the tiny bubbles coming out of an air stone only get cleaned on the out side of the bubble.  The inside still carries electrolyte until it bursts.  The perfect setup is to burst every bubble after it has been cleaned on the outside so you can clean the inside.   It then forms a new bubble which is hopefully clean both on the inside and the outside.  How this is done....well there are a number of different designs out there some are posted on this forum.  I am making some major changes in my design and when I am satisfied it is working the way I want it to I will post the information.  The air stone I use is expensive and made out of plastic.  It has worked very well now for many years with very little maintenance.  Here is the link for the diffuser.  Make sure you order the right one to handle the volume you need. 1 CFM is = to 28.32 LPM

http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/1560/Porous-Plastic-Diffusers/air%20stone/4

A well designed reactor and reservoir will limit the amount of electrolyte exiting the reservoir.  I am making changes to in my reservoir design to improve on this problem.  A reactor that runs cool and does not need as much electrolyte flowing through it to help keep it cool but only needs to maintain the right level of electrolyte is what my goal is.  

The liquid in the bubbler in summer can be distilled water but in winter you need to add alcohol if you live in the frozen north.  I add 20% but am not satisfied because of the daily maintance.  I am still working on a slightly acidic oil based liquid with the help of a major company and when that is complete it should be available commercially to use year around.   I have no idea what the cost will be and testing is on going to find out how often you need to change it and how to measure the acidity level easily to know when to change it as it slowly becomes alkaline over many hours of running HHO through it.  Test are also being done on the effects on combustion when very small amounts get carried into the engine and how it effects the exhaust gases etc.   


What if we were to use antifreeze in colder climates?  Or even salt in the bubbler?  Would they clean electrolytes out of it, or would they add to it?
Logged

Life is a state of existence
myoldyourgold
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1168



« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2012, 09:58:56 AM »

Quote
What if we were to use antifreeze in colder climates?  Or even salt in the bubbler?  Would they clean electrolytes out of it, or would they add to it?

The best solution for harsh winters is a dry filter.  A number of people are working on them and there should be at least one available this winter you can buy or build.  I have been using an oil based product in my bubblers that is made to be mixed with the fuel to treat the upper end of the engine so what little that does go out is actually helpful to the engine and it neutralizes any electrolyte that has escaped.  It does have a foaming problem if to much electrolyte is escaping but not one you cannot control.  Antifreeze looses its ability to not freeze after bubbling HHO through it for a while.  I think the alcohol in it evaporates so needs to be changed quite often.  There are some other problems too with it but they do not come to mind at the moment.   
Logged

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb."

ONE Liter per minute per 10 amps which just isn't possible Ha Ha
JUAN45
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 6


« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2014, 05:30:05 AM »

hola soy nuevo en le foro,vivo en argentina, provincia de santa fe,  hace 4 meses que estoy con HHO tengo algun problema con el flashback arrestor, les comento, tube barias explociones en el burbugeador, el flashback arrestor lo construi como todos, quiciera saber en que estoy fallando. grasias.
Logged
PDJ
Say NO to high fuel prices.....
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 594


There is a lot you can do with Water!


WWW
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2014, 06:24:07 PM »

Hola allí y Bienvenido al foro. Me alegra que decidido a que nos visite y estoy seguro de que encontrará una gran cantidad de información disponible para usted.

Con tu publicación en español, obviamente no desea leer en inglés. Esto está bien, a ver este foro en otro idioma - copiar la dirección de este foro y visitar http://www.microsofttranslator.com/Default.aspx?ref=IE8Activity - el foro entero y todos los posteos estará en el idioma de su elección.

Si desea publicar preguntas yo recomendaría usar el traductor anterior, escriba su pregunta, y luego copiar y pegarlo en inglés en el foro.

Estoy usando este traductor y escribir en inglés. Aunque estoy usando signos de puntuación y estructura de la oración aceptable para inglés, algunas palabras pueden parecer fuera de lugar pero estoy seguro de que la mayoría de la información se entenderán fácilmente.

Disfrútalo.

Paul
Administrador del Foro
Logged

The sole meaning of life is to serve humanity
Please consider Donating a small amount through the links at the top and bottom of each page. This helps to pay for the Web Hosting so as to offer you the information in this Forum. RYFB was set up as a Community Worldwide Service to help reduce our dependency on Damaging Fossil Fuels and we receive NO funding from any other source other than the occasional Donation.
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Send this topic  |  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Please consider Donating a small amount through the links at the top and bottom of each page. This helps to pay for the Web Hosting so as to offer you the information in this Forum. RYFB was set up as a Community Worldwide Service to help reduce our dependency on Damaging Fossil Fuels and we receive NO funding from any other source other than the occasional Donation.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.036 seconds with 21 queries.